toilet? broken flange below subfloor & hole too big

homeonwheels · Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:21 pm

My husband tried to replace the small bathroom floor and botched it. I redid it and was getting ready to put down linoleum. I checked the waste hole and noticed that the flange was totally fubar. It looks like it was originally put in wrong. The slots are N-S instead of E-W. It is broken and twisted anyway because of how it was forced to be used. I just need to replace it. It is ABS.

I hope I can explain this right.

My husband insisted that a flange is NOT attached to the floor. I thought that was wrong, but didn't check for myself. I cut one piece of wood for the floor and cut a hole, smaller than my husband's but still too big at abt 8 inches. After doing the research, that I should have done first, I realized that the hole was too big. I looked under the toilet [made 1970] and found that the hole in the floor and the area formed in the porcelain for mounting the flange are nearly exactly the same size. There is no room to mount a fixit product for a hole too big.

So, I have 2 problems that seem insurmountable short of tearing up the floor again. It is perfectly prepped for feltback linoleum. It is silconed, bondo-ed, leveled, screwed and sanded. The flange would have to be cut out from under the trailer and a new pipe run up through the floor.

The only thing I can think to do-- and it isn't the correct way-- is to chip off the old ring on top of the flange and put in an extender with an expandable neoprene sleeve. This will also allow me to raise it to the right height. My waste pipe is 3". I haven't seen the product in person and don't know if one sold for 3" will actually fit inside a 3". Then I was thinking I could cut a disc to fit the present floor hole, put in the 3" hole in the center. If I could get it over the pipe, I wouldn't have to bisect it, but even if I did have to bisect it, I could use one of several ways to secure the disc flush to the hole. I would have to chisel/route any metal plates or countersink any "toenailed" screws because the hole is under the porcelain ridges that form that diameter. I see many potential problems and no this is not easy or a great fix, but I just don't want to do the floor again or go monkeying under the trailer with 30 odd year plumbing.

I can also cut a footprint exactly the size of the toilet, get the hole right, bisect or not as the case may be and have the toilet sit on the edges of that piece-- don't want to do that. Could also just put down another piece over the whole toilet area and have 2 floor levels in the bathroom-- don't want that, either.

Since the trailer was made, it seems the flange was never attached to anything. I suppose that is an option, too. Albeit, one I am loathe to use. Oh, I had to frame in support under the toilet, it was never there. There wasn't any under the shower, either. AAARRRGGGHHH!

I've never done a toilet. Any suggestions?

Greg S · Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:40 pm

Is it possible to remove a small section of the floor under the toilet area. You would only have to remove a section back to the center of the surrounding floor joists/new supports and drop in a new floor piece with the proper size hole cut in it.

homeonwheels · Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:16 pm

Thanks for the response.

That is a good and logical idea. I had considered that. I haven't ruled it out. The problem is that there is no standard in any of the joists/supports under that area. There was a vent directly behind the toilet. I capped that off as all it did was make the toilet sweat into the duct work. The duct work is still there under the floor and leads to the bedroom. I added support to the floor in front of the toilet, but it was impossible to add behind it because of space and ductwork. The floor is only barely resting on the edge of the support under the back wall. I never marked the wall where anything was and it is so helter skelter by necessity that it's impossible to tell.

The floor joists run out in front of the toilet. The wall behind the toilet is only 30" wide and one of the walls goes out at an angle from the corner, so it is wider where you sit.

I am going to give it more thought.

Greg · Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:29 pm

You can cut a square area, shallow cut over or next to the joists and then add a couple of cross joists between the two to support the edges, that way you will have support on all 4 sides.

Next cut the plywood to fit and locate and cut the hole for the pipe. Install the pipe & flange. Greg

JD · Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:18 pm

Have you seen the repair parts at this following link? They offer a floor and flange support kit that looks like it would work for you. I am not sure if the repair flange comes with it. If not, I bet they could sell you one.

JD

homeonwheels · Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:32 am

Greg- That would, of course, be my preferred choice. It isn't possible to do.

JD- You left out the link. It's ok, though, cause I was looking at all sorts of fixit hardware for this problem. I can't use them. The hole is too big. Anything that spans the hole would have to be screwed down directly below the porcelain ridges in the old toilet.

When I put the floor down, I placed a support across the joists in the middle of the room- like where you would stand at the sink. I DID mark that one on the wall. I have decided to cut the floor in half [over that support] and remove the toilet section. That way, I won't be stuck with a small piece that can't be adhered properly. I really don't want the board under the toilet to be so small and I would rather the seam be farther away from the toilet.

Thanks all-

JD · Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:48 pm

Sorry about that. Here's the link. You may want to take a look though. The floor and flange support is pretty big and they also have those toilet floor plates which are bigger than the base of a toilet. Both items are specifically for what you are describing. These are not just the the flange overlay things, although I am sure they have those too.

http://www.quickfixplumbingproducts.com/

It also seems to me that if the floor is that bad, it should probably be rebuilt rather than repaired.

JD

homeonwheels · Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:50 pm

That site has some great products. It was one of a few I looked at.

The floor is in fantastic shape. Other than the wrong hole size

That's why I don't want to take it up again.

It is really hard to describe my problem without pictures.

When I get the floor up, I'll post pictures. This isn't my main bathroom. It is really small. When it was built, everything that could be done wrong, was done wrong. The toilet is in perfectly good shape but is from 1970 and the footprint is very small as is the area it sits in.

The products at the site you mentioned were what I had originally looked at to use. They don't give any dimensions, though. I have never seen the under side of any other toilet, but mine looks like a divided cafeteria lunch tray. The waste hole is the center of an 8" concave donut. There are ridges dividing that area from the front and rear area. The ridges sit on the floor. I really want one of those products to work, but I don't know if they would, given the many considerations. Not the least of which is the fact that I don't want metal under the porcelain.

I have decided just to pull up half the floor, anyway. There's really no getting around it. It will be easier to deal with the flange that way, too.